Comments on: Maybe It’s Not All Johnson’s Fault? http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of an unnecessary blog, or prohibiting the free posting therein. Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:25:32 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Mitch Johnson & Personal Liability « The Spagnola Report http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/comment-page-1/#comment-58612 Mitch Johnson & Personal Liability « The Spagnola Report Thu, 14 Feb 2008 04:25:48 +0000 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/#comment-58612 [...] at Plead the First raises the question as to whether this explanation shows that Johnson really does have his hands [...] [...] at Plead the First raises the question as to whether this explanation shows that Johnson really does have his hands [...]

]]> By: Mitch Johnson Gets It Wrong Again « The Conservative Alternative http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/comment-page-1/#comment-58535 Mitch Johnson Gets It Wrong Again « The Conservative Alternative Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:00:10 +0000 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/#comment-58535 [...] at Plead the First raises the question as to whether this explanation shows that Johnson really does have his hands [...] [...] at Plead the First raises the question as to whether this explanation shows that Johnson really does have his hands [...]

]]> By: Spag http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/comment-page-1/#comment-58533 Spag Wed, 13 Feb 2008 05:12:18 +0000 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/#comment-58533 I do want to clear Marsh Prause from liability. I spoke with him today, and I am satisfied entirely that his failure to ask the question was not on purpose. He must have shuffled it in with some other questions. Normally, I wouldn't accept that as an explanation, but after talking to Prause, I am convinced it was simply a mistake and he had no orders or other motive to not ask it. He took it well considering that I was a bit hostile last night. I do want to clear Marsh Prause from liability. I spoke with him today, and I am satisfied entirely that his failure to ask the question was not on purpose. He must have shuffled it in with some other questions. Normally, I wouldn’t accept that as an explanation, but after talking to Prause, I am convinced it was simply a mistake and he had no orders or other motive to not ask it.

He took it well considering that I was a bit hostile last night.

]]> By: Anthony http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/comment-page-1/#comment-58516 Anthony Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:51:58 +0000 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/#comment-58516 Thanks for the comments everyone. Roch: "Don’t just give me the reasons for keeping things secret, if we want to release information, give me the legal justifications for doing so" Yes - there should definitely be more of this. However, there's certainly more effort involved in that route than in simply playing it safe and keeping everything to themselves. Considering Margaret Moffett-Banks experience with her records request - a little effort on the part of the city could have clarified things and helped to find the document she was looking for - it seems as though there's a bit of an inclination for the city to do the minimal amount of effort possible with regard to the free flow of information. darkmoon: I hear what you're saying, and it makes sense. However, being as it's the city, and not a private entity, there needs to be more balance between protecting the city and serving the people. Right now, everything seems to lean towards trying to protect the city. Doug and Brenda: It'd be helpful if someone could make some sort of chart or "family tree" showing the relationship between all these lawyers and their clients. I'm having trouble following that aspect of it. Thanks for the comments everyone.

Roch:

“Don’t just give me the reasons for keeping things secret, if we want to release information, give me the legal justifications for doing so”

Yes – there should definitely be more of this. However, there’s certainly more effort involved in that route than in simply playing it safe and keeping everything to themselves.

Considering Margaret Moffett-Banks experience with her records request – a little effort on the part of the city could have clarified things and helped to find the document she was looking for – it seems as though there’s a bit of an inclination for the city to do the minimal amount of effort possible with regard to the free flow of information.

darkmoon:

I hear what you’re saying, and it makes sense. However, being as it’s the city, and not a private entity, there needs to be more balance between protecting the city and serving the people. Right now, everything seems to lean towards trying to protect the city.

Doug and Brenda:

It’d be helpful if someone could make some sort of chart or “family tree” showing the relationship between all these lawyers and their clients. I’m having trouble following that aspect of it.

]]> By: Brenda Bowers http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/comment-page-1/#comment-58485 Brenda Bowers Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:16:39 +0000 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/#comment-58485 Good question Doug. Who else in Greensboro might the gentleman be working for? Mitch Johnson IMO is only the front henchman. I can understand with the very apparent ineptness of the city legal staff that one would want to have another attorney giving advice, but why this particular attorney? It seems to me that he has too many city and county clients and this does not seem to be a mere coincident. BB Good question Doug. Who else in Greensboro might the gentleman be working for? Mitch Johnson IMO is only the front henchman. I can understand with the very apparent ineptness of the city legal staff that one would want to have another attorney giving advice, but why this particular attorney? It seems to me that he has too many city and county clients and this does not seem to be a mere coincident. BB

]]> By: Doug http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/comment-page-1/#comment-58466 Doug Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:40:17 +0000 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/#comment-58466 Regarding Mitch's reference to lawyers' advice, what is Alan Duncan's involvement? I've seen blog comments that make it wound like he's the lawyer for the city, county, school administration, GPD, everyone under the sun. What's his real involvement? Regarding Mitch’s reference to lawyers’ advice, what is Alan Duncan’s involvement? I’ve seen blog comments that make it wound like he’s the lawyer for the city, county, school administration, GPD, everyone under the sun.

What’s his real involvement?

]]> By: Spag http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/comment-page-1/#comment-58465 Spag Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:31:57 +0000 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/#comment-58465 If you are going to hide behind alleged legalities, you need to explain them. If you can't release the RMA report because you claim it is a protected personnel record, the burden of proof is on you. When you can't answer a simple question such as "whose personnel file is it?" then it exposes your excuse for what it is. If you are going to hide behind alleged legalities, you need to explain them. If you can’t release the RMA report because you claim it is a protected personnel record, the burden of proof is on you. When you can’t answer a simple question such as “whose personnel file is it?” then it exposes your excuse for what it is.

]]> By: darkmoon http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/comment-page-1/#comment-58458 darkmoon Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:38:38 +0000 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/#comment-58458 Having not followed this closely, I can't comment on the actual issue. But I can say that regardless of having "all the information" out in the public's hands... I'll have to side with any legal. Any overprotective legal team, is better than a "underprotective". Personal opinion wise, I'd much rather be withholding documents and piss off a few citizens then create a huge legal fiasco. Not being an attorney, I personally would play on the more conservative side as anyone that was being represented and I think that the caution shown by Mitch and city's legal team is actually a better than naught. It might get some individuals irate, and I think that's just poor PR form (they could diffuse by saying they can't comment on it for legal reasons). It might be a catch-all, but knowing people that have been in similar legal situations means that I can see the justification for it. Just my two cents. Having not followed this closely, I can’t comment on the actual issue. But I can say that regardless of having “all the information” out in the public’s hands… I’ll have to side with any legal. Any overprotective legal team, is better than a “underprotective”.

Personal opinion wise, I’d much rather be withholding documents and piss off a few citizens then create a huge legal fiasco.

Not being an attorney, I personally would play on the more conservative side as anyone that was being represented and I think that the caution shown by Mitch and city’s legal team is actually a better than naught. It might get some individuals irate, and I think that’s just poor PR form (they could diffuse by saying they can’t comment on it for legal reasons). It might be a catch-all, but knowing people that have been in similar legal situations means that I can see the justification for it.

Just my two cents.

]]> By: Roch101 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/comment-page-1/#comment-58455 Roch101 Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:58:29 +0000 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/#comment-58455 Uh, about that seemingly unrelated footnote. The comment above had originally included a line about city legal's motivation being to do the bidding of what they perceive to be the will of city government -- not to give a balanced argument for and against certain action. The footnote is an example. Uh, about that seemingly unrelated footnote. The comment above had originally included a line about city legal’s motivation being to do the bidding of what they perceive to be the will of city government — not to give a balanced argument for and against certain action. The footnote is an example.

]]> By: Roch101 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/comment-page-1/#comment-58453 Roch101 Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:53:20 +0000 http://pleadthefirst.com/2008/02/12/maybe-its-not-all-johnsons-fault/#comment-58453 You are right on, Anthony. As a leader, Mitch should be able to discern this himself, but that aside, you make an excellent point. Mitch is getting some second opinions, from the likes of attorney and City Council person Mike Barber. If he wanted to, Mitch could instruct his legal team, "Don't just give me the reasons for keeping things secret, if we want to release information, give me the legal justifications for doing so" (there are plenty). Even if the legal justification comes down the the catch-all in state law that allows City Council to release information because it is in the interest of restoring public trust, Mitch could be going to the council and saying, "In the interest of restoring public trust, I want you to vote to release the black book,' the RMA report and the other materials requested by Spagnola, Guarino and Smith." * Not just on this issue, either. When the city passed an ordinance requiring all rental units to be inspected for safety, the wording lead the Inspections Department to believe that they could enter an apartment without the renter's permission. A clear violation of the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution as decided by the Supreme Court. When I brought this deficiency to the City's attention as a speaker from the floor at a city council meeting, the City Attorney's response was to defend the ordinance as perfectly Constitutional. Fortunately, attorney Don Vaughn was on City Council at the time and quickly saw to it that the council approved a change to the ordinance that brought it into compliance with the law by requiring permission of the occupant. You are right on, Anthony. As a leader, Mitch should be able to discern this himself, but that aside, you make an excellent point.

Mitch is getting some second opinions, from the likes of attorney and City Council person Mike Barber. If he wanted to, Mitch could instruct his legal team, “Don’t just give me the reasons for keeping things secret, if we want to release information, give me the legal justifications for doing so” (there are plenty).

Even if the legal justification comes down the the catch-all in state law that allows City Council to release information because it is in the interest of restoring public trust, Mitch could be going to the council and saying, “In the interest of restoring public trust, I want you to vote to release the black book,’ the RMA report and the other materials requested by Spagnola, Guarino and Smith.”

* Not just on this issue, either. When the city passed an ordinance requiring all rental units to be inspected for safety, the wording lead the Inspections Department to believe that they could enter an apartment without the renter’s permission. A clear violation of the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution as decided by the Supreme Court. When I brought this deficiency to the City’s attention as a speaker from the floor at a city council meeting, the City Attorney’s response was to defend the ordinance as perfectly Constitutional. Fortunately, attorney Don Vaughn was on City Council at the time and quickly saw to it that the council approved a change to the ordinance that brought it into compliance with the law by requiring permission of the occupant.

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